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	<title>Comments on: Learning from the Lunsfords&#8217; &#8220;Mistakes&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/</link>
	<description>Blogging by and for academic and research librarians</description>
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		<title>By: Puzzled by Patron-Driven Acquisitions? &#171; CABL: Central AZ Biomedical Libraries</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/comment-page-1/#comment-178723</link>
		<dc:creator>Puzzled by Patron-Driven Acquisitions? &#171; CABL: Central AZ Biomedical Libraries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=839#comment-178723</guid>
		<description>[...] gives authentic research a bad name, but in fact this kind of expository writing from sources is more prevalent than ever. But I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] gives authentic research a bad name, but in fact this kind of expository writing from sources is more prevalent than ever. But I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Reuse, Remix, Regret</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/comment-page-1/#comment-96989</link>
		<dc:creator>Reuse, Remix, Regret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=839#comment-96989</guid>
		<description>[...] the fact thatstudents are asked to write more from sources than in the past plays a role. As an organization of writing program administrators has pointed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the fact thatstudents are asked to write more from sources than in the past plays a role. As an organization of writing program administrators has pointed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: thinking about discourse when you don&#8217;t know what it looks like &#171; info-fetishist</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/comment-page-1/#comment-94107</link>
		<dc:creator>thinking about discourse when you don&#8217;t know what it looks like &#171; info-fetishist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=839#comment-94107</guid>
		<description>[...] an ideal world, we&#8217;d probably be thinking more seriously about Barbara&#8217;s suggestion that this kind of thing is really being int... (first-year composition) and that we could scaffold this learning much better.Â  Our world [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an ideal world, we&#8217;d probably be thinking more seriously about Barbara&#8217;s suggestion that this kind of thing is really being int&#8230; (first-year composition) and that we could scaffold this learning much better.Â  Our world [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joan</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/comment-page-1/#comment-93651</link>
		<dc:creator>Joan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=839#comment-93651</guid>
		<description>Barbara, you are exactly right. Many students write the papers first and then look for the article that supports their argument, which is, I&#039;m sure, not what their professors intended, and certainly does not lend itself to good research or good papers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barbara, you are exactly right. Many students write the papers first and then look for the article that supports their argument, which is, I&#8217;m sure, not what their professors intended, and certainly does not lend itself to good research or good papers.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/comment-page-1/#comment-93489</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=839#comment-93489</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://info-fetishist.org/2008/07/25/critically-thinking-about-comment-threads/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a fascinating post over at Infofetishist&lt;/a&gt; about how we focus on argument rather than on truth-seeking. It has made me think a lot about how we frame the whole concept of evidence. It tends to be thought of as that which proves your point, not that which helps you decide what to believe. 

And - bouncing off your point - I do think confidence comes when students have some knowledge base to work from, which they don&#039;t (typically) in the first year. Rushing to teach the format of researched writing - how to cite sources, for example - makes me wonder whether we aren&#039;t emphasizing the wrong things, or at least taking them in the wrong order. A lot of students never get past the idea that &quot;I have to cite something, so I&#039;ll write my paper and then throw in some quotes&quot; or &quot;I&#039;ll find some sources and smush them together, and that will be my paper.&quot; They&#039;ve learned rules of conversation that don&#039;t actually engage them in the conversation at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s <a href="http://info-fetishist.org/2008/07/25/critically-thinking-about-comment-threads/" rel="nofollow">a fascinating post over at Infofetishist</a> about how we focus on argument rather than on truth-seeking. It has made me think a lot about how we frame the whole concept of evidence. It tends to be thought of as that which proves your point, not that which helps you decide what to believe. </p>
<p>And &#8211; bouncing off your point &#8211; I do think confidence comes when students have some knowledge base to work from, which they don&#8217;t (typically) in the first year. Rushing to teach the format of researched writing &#8211; how to cite sources, for example &#8211; makes me wonder whether we aren&#8217;t emphasizing the wrong things, or at least taking them in the wrong order. A lot of students never get past the idea that &#8220;I have to cite something, so I&#8217;ll write my paper and then throw in some quotes&#8221; or &#8220;I&#8217;ll find some sources and smush them together, and that will be my paper.&#8221; They&#8217;ve learned rules of conversation that don&#8217;t actually engage them in the conversation at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Joan</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/comment-page-1/#comment-93135</link>
		<dc:creator>Joan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 03:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=839#comment-93135</guid>
		<description>Barbara, what a fascinating topic -- thanks for blogging this.

I know I had very few research papers as an undergraduate the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, about 15 years ago. In the English Department, the emphasis was very much on our own analysis. And when we used sources, we were often given them, in a course pack or otherwise on reserve. 

As a librarian, I do see a lot of students struggling to do research that&#039;s way over their heads, and thus we end up with students who will take the first three articles or books that seem even vaguely relevant. I think part of the problem is that we&#039;re asking students to participate in scholarly conversations before they&#039;ve even gained the confidence to formulate, and then argue, then own opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barbara, what a fascinating topic &#8212; thanks for blogging this.</p>
<p>I know I had very few research papers as an undergraduate the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, about 15 years ago. In the English Department, the emphasis was very much on our own analysis. And when we used sources, we were often given them, in a course pack or otherwise on reserve. </p>
<p>As a librarian, I do see a lot of students struggling to do research that&#8217;s way over their heads, and thus we end up with students who will take the first three articles or books that seem even vaguely relevant. I think part of the problem is that we&#8217;re asking students to participate in scholarly conversations before they&#8217;ve even gained the confidence to formulate, and then argue, then own opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: Research, Writing and the new student&#8230;the news is good for a change &#171; UConn Waterbury Library Blog</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/comment-page-1/#comment-92976</link>
		<dc:creator>Research, Writing and the new student&#8230;the news is good for a change &#171; UConn Waterbury Library Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=839#comment-92976</guid>
		<description>[...] http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/" rel="nofollow">http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/07/25/learning-from-the-lunsfords-mistakes/comment-page-1/#comment-92674</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=839#comment-92674</guid>
		<description>For discussion of the Lundfords&#039; article at The Chronicle:

http://chronicle.com/review/brainstorm/bauerlein/the-lunsfords-on-student-writing</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For discussion of the Lundfords&#8217; article at The Chronicle:</p>
<p><a href="http://chronicle.com/review/brainstorm/bauerlein/the-lunsfords-on-student-writing" rel="nofollow">http://chronicle.com/review/brainstorm/bauerlein/the-lunsfords-on-student-writing</a></p>
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