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	<title>Comments on: Another Story About Ignorant Students</title>
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	<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/</link>
	<description>Blogging by and for academic and research librarians</description>
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		<title>By: The Challenge Of Under-Prepared Students</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-125797</link>
		<dc:creator>The Challenge Of Under-Prepared Students</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 12:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-125797</guid>
		<description>[...] challenges the reference librarian&#8217;s skills and knowledge, there are more interactions with students who give the impression of being under-prepared for college-level research. So we academic librarians may groan a bit, but we ultimately dig in and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] challenges the reference librarian&#8217;s skills and knowledge, there are more interactions with students who give the impression of being under-prepared for college-level research. So we academic librarians may groan a bit, but we ultimately dig in and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Meg Juliano</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-104834</link>
		<dc:creator>Meg Juliano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 16:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-104834</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this blog and reminding individuals to refrain from criticizing students for whatever their shortcomings might be. It is important that all of us remember the focus of our positions- to help students and clients be successful in their quest for information and materials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this blog and reminding individuals to refrain from criticizing students for whatever their shortcomings might be. It is important that all of us remember the focus of our positions- to help students and clients be successful in their quest for information and materials.</p>
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		<title>By: Those Darn Kids&#8230;questions about entitlement &#171; stuff I learned about libraries, etc.</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-103980</link>
		<dc:creator>Those Darn Kids&#8230;questions about entitlement &#171; stuff I learned about libraries, etc.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-103980</guid>
		<description>[...] ACRL blog has this article on the topic: http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/     Filed under: Fairly Useless Musing  &#160;&#160;&#124;&#160;&#160; Tags: academic libraries, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ACRL blog has this article on the topic: <a href="http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/" rel="nofollow">http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/</a>     Filed under: Fairly Useless Musing  &nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp; Tags: academic libraries, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-103771</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-103771</guid>
		<description>I too would be dismayed at a nursing student who spelled his/her major incorrectly.  But I probably would see it as a teaching moment--&quot;Oops--spelling counts when you are using the library resources.  Let&#039;s make sure this is spelled correctly.&quot;  Something like that.  

Slightly off topic, but I myself am famous for misspelling during library instruction sessions.  Not on purpose, mainly because my middle aged eyes are weakening!  It does provide a little humor in the classroom though--&quot;You spelled that wrong!&quot;  The students seem to get a kick out of pointing out the mistakes.  At least I know they are paying attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too would be dismayed at a nursing student who spelled his/her major incorrectly.  But I probably would see it as a teaching moment&#8211;&#8221;Oops&#8211;spelling counts when you are using the library resources.  Let&#8217;s make sure this is spelled correctly.&#8221;  Something like that.  </p>
<p>Slightly off topic, but I myself am famous for misspelling during library instruction sessions.  Not on purpose, mainly because my middle aged eyes are weakening!  It does provide a little humor in the classroom though&#8211;&#8221;You spelled that wrong!&#8221;  The students seem to get a kick out of pointing out the mistakes.  At least I know they are paying attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Singing Librarian</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-103682</link>
		<dc:creator>Singing Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-103682</guid>
		<description>None of us, it is true, have perfect spelling, and we have a great many students with dyslexia or other factors affecting their ability to spell.  We&#039;re used to that.  It was the sheer scale of two (yes, English-speaking) students not knowing how to spell the name of their course and chosen profession that struck me.

I am frequently disturbed by the level of education that students seem to have acquired prior to entering the HE sector and it worries me particularly with student teachers.  I will always help the student in front of me, if I possibly can.  It just strikes me that teaching a student nurse how to spell nursing should not be in the range of things librarians teach students.  Not really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of us, it is true, have perfect spelling, and we have a great many students with dyslexia or other factors affecting their ability to spell.  We&#8217;re used to that.  It was the sheer scale of two (yes, English-speaking) students not knowing how to spell the name of their course and chosen profession that struck me.</p>
<p>I am frequently disturbed by the level of education that students seem to have acquired prior to entering the HE sector and it worries me particularly with student teachers.  I will always help the student in front of me, if I possibly can.  It just strikes me that teaching a student nurse how to spell nursing should not be in the range of things librarians teach students.  Not really.</p>
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		<title>By: StevenB</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-103659</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 03:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-103659</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not suggesting that we can never discuss the challenges of students who are not performing up to their potential, but that we do need to be careful about our choice of terminology and where we have those conversations. My intent is to avoid situations where we humilate students or bring embarrassment to our organizations. I don&#039;t think that&#039;s being overly sensitive or expressing fear. It&#039;s more about understanding and compassion. We should hold students to high expectations and I&#039;ve written that on a number of occasions - as well as the need for faculty to raise the students&#039; expectations for themselves. I also appreciate those who have written to point out the reasons for why students might be spelling challenged, but if it&#039;s true they were in a nursing course and couldn&#039;t spell nursing correctly, that is difficult to accept.

Thanks for adding your comments and making some good points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting that we can never discuss the challenges of students who are not performing up to their potential, but that we do need to be careful about our choice of terminology and where we have those conversations. My intent is to avoid situations where we humilate students or bring embarrassment to our organizations. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s being overly sensitive or expressing fear. It&#8217;s more about understanding and compassion. We should hold students to high expectations and I&#8217;ve written that on a number of occasions &#8211; as well as the need for faculty to raise the students&#8217; expectations for themselves. I also appreciate those who have written to point out the reasons for why students might be spelling challenged, but if it&#8217;s true they were in a nursing course and couldn&#8217;t spell nursing correctly, that is difficult to accept.</p>
<p>Thanks for adding your comments and making some good points.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-103654</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-103654</guid>
		<description>The questions raised are very good ones, but I believe what I reject is the labeling of all people under the age of 30 as &quot;The Dumbest Generation.&quot; That is what I find objectionable, and what I find incendiary. As a recent college grad and now Web Designer for a Library, I could easily recount a number of circumstances of absolute idiocy during my college years, and I even transferred schools to find more academic rigor.

However, I fear when we generalize these powerful, memorable anecdotes onto the broader population it clearly disparages those of us in our generation who rebel against this anti-intellectual culture (and my generation didn&#039;t start the anti-intellectual fire). I was disgusted by the anecdotes related in Baurelein&#039;s book and found the students he illustrated to be lacking in curiosity and education, but as a sociological/statistical analysis I thought his book was weak (in short I felt it was written to prove a thesis, rather than a meta analysis of high-quality, well controlled studies). It provided some good examples, but the ability to broaden these to our whole under-30 population is a stretch unsupported by the data. I also actually chuckled a few times while reading the book as the author lamented our generation being uninspired by George Will (really?) or that we attend fewer Jazz Concerts (I guess we&#039;re &quot;Fine Art&quot; heathens). Furthermore, and most problematic analytically, the book never established a baseline -- that Bauerlein&#039;s generation is an intelligent generation (1/3 of all adults believe in real, actual ghosts, for example). Yet despite these problems, this book is framing the conversations around this topic as evidenced by your conference call (which I was unable to attend because of a prior commitment).

I&#039;m not asking that we reject the existence stupidity, or reject poking fun at it (because Nersing is hilarious in a dark way, and Idiocracy is a brilliant concept). An action can be dumb, a question can be dumb, an individual can be dumb.

What I want is for this conversation to stop disparaging smart people by generalizing us all as the &quot;Dumbest Generation,&quot; while missing the point that we need to help ALL adults increase their literacy (as 43% of the total US adult population has low literacy [http://nces.ed.gov/naal/]).

As an analogy: How do you feel when &quot;Americans&quot; are written off as stupid, fat, lazy cheese-eating slobs by foreigners? What&#039;s your initial reaction? You have to acknowledge their points to some extent, but you also have to reject the concept as an over-generalization. That type of over-generalization is what is I feel is happening with these books in reference to my generation.

I hope I&#039;m not going to crazy, I just want this &quot;Dumbest Generation&quot; business to be thought out before it becomes the framework from which to examine these problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The questions raised are very good ones, but I believe what I reject is the labeling of all people under the age of 30 as &#8220;The Dumbest Generation.&#8221; That is what I find objectionable, and what I find incendiary. As a recent college grad and now Web Designer for a Library, I could easily recount a number of circumstances of absolute idiocy during my college years, and I even transferred schools to find more academic rigor.</p>
<p>However, I fear when we generalize these powerful, memorable anecdotes onto the broader population it clearly disparages those of us in our generation who rebel against this anti-intellectual culture (and my generation didn&#8217;t start the anti-intellectual fire). I was disgusted by the anecdotes related in Baurelein&#8217;s book and found the students he illustrated to be lacking in curiosity and education, but as a sociological/statistical analysis I thought his book was weak (in short I felt it was written to prove a thesis, rather than a meta analysis of high-quality, well controlled studies). It provided some good examples, but the ability to broaden these to our whole under-30 population is a stretch unsupported by the data. I also actually chuckled a few times while reading the book as the author lamented our generation being uninspired by George Will (really?) or that we attend fewer Jazz Concerts (I guess we&#8217;re &#8220;Fine Art&#8221; heathens). Furthermore, and most problematic analytically, the book never established a baseline &#8212; that Bauerlein&#8217;s generation is an intelligent generation (1/3 of all adults believe in real, actual ghosts, for example). Yet despite these problems, this book is framing the conversations around this topic as evidenced by your conference call (which I was unable to attend because of a prior commitment).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not asking that we reject the existence stupidity, or reject poking fun at it (because Nersing is hilarious in a dark way, and Idiocracy is a brilliant concept). An action can be dumb, a question can be dumb, an individual can be dumb.</p>
<p>What I want is for this conversation to stop disparaging smart people by generalizing us all as the &#8220;Dumbest Generation,&#8221; while missing the point that we need to help ALL adults increase their literacy (as 43% of the total US adult population has low literacy [http://nces.ed.gov/naal/]).</p>
<p>As an analogy: How do you feel when &#8220;Americans&#8221; are written off as stupid, fat, lazy cheese-eating slobs by foreigners? What&#8217;s your initial reaction? You have to acknowledge their points to some extent, but you also have to reject the concept as an over-generalization. That type of over-generalization is what is I feel is happening with these books in reference to my generation.</p>
<p>I hope I&#8217;m not going to crazy, I just want this &#8220;Dumbest Generation&#8221; business to be thought out before it becomes the framework from which to examine these problems.</p>
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		<title>By: JanM</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-103638</link>
		<dc:creator>JanM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-103638</guid>
		<description>Good spelling is not a measure of intelligence. Spelling involves memorization and knowledge of the rules of spelling. 

At some point we must all take responsibility for things we need to improve upon. 

So, if you are a poor speller take steps to improve, and by providing spell check it helps students/patrons to help themselves and also improves their spelling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good spelling is not a measure of intelligence. Spelling involves memorization and knowledge of the rules of spelling. </p>
<p>At some point we must all take responsibility for things we need to improve upon. </p>
<p>So, if you are a poor speller take steps to improve, and by providing spell check it helps students/patrons to help themselves and also improves their spelling.</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-103637</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-103637</guid>
		<description>I have an MLS and a spelling disability.  As a high school student I was not chosen for a foreign exchange program because I misspelled Spanish all the way through my essay!  I would never have known if not for the fact that one of the lay committee members knew my father and told him the reason I wasn&#039;t selected.  My father, in his kindness waited several years to tell me this story.

Several years ago my supervisor asked a friend and I to head an important accreditation committee.  My friend was and is a great professional and later told me that I helped her understand that learning disabled people can have high IQs. 

Even today I still struggle with spelling and written expression. As I exit my fifth decade, I find myself using shorter words and limiting my exposure because of my handicap.

My years as an educator and librarian have taught me that my job is to take the student and/or patron in front of me and move them one step along on the research process.

Cindy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have an MLS and a spelling disability.  As a high school student I was not chosen for a foreign exchange program because I misspelled Spanish all the way through my essay!  I would never have known if not for the fact that one of the lay committee members knew my father and told him the reason I wasn&#8217;t selected.  My father, in his kindness waited several years to tell me this story.</p>
<p>Several years ago my supervisor asked a friend and I to head an important accreditation committee.  My friend was and is a great professional and later told me that I helped her understand that learning disabled people can have high IQs. </p>
<p>Even today I still struggle with spelling and written expression. As I exit my fifth decade, I find myself using shorter words and limiting my exposure because of my handicap.</p>
<p>My years as an educator and librarian have taught me that my job is to take the student and/or patron in front of me and move them one step along on the research process.</p>
<p>Cindy</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy Kump</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2008/10/14/another-story-about-ignorant-students/comment-page-1/#comment-103635</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy Kump</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1057#comment-103635</guid>
		<description>I applaud these students for even asking for help. Too often students just get frustrated and leave. Then they complain to their friends and/or professor that the library doesn&#039;t have anything.

Maybe they are terrible spellers or maybe they just had a brain hiccup. Years ago I worked in order entry at a catalog center. A customer named Joan called and I could not for the life of me remember how to spell &quot;Joan.&quot; My brain just shut down and all I could think of was &quot;Jone&quot; but I knew that wasn&#039;t right. I&#039;m no spelling bee champion but I did know how to spell &quot;Joan.&quot; I just blanked for some reason.

I think there are issues with the educational system, student motivation, parents who don&#039;t encourage learning, etc., but when I encounter a patron like this, I don&#039;t worry about who&#039;s fault it is. I take them as they are and go from there. Yes, they should know these things but when they don&#039;t I help them as best I can to bring them up to speed. A lot of these kids know they are behind and are nervous about asking for help. A good experience with a librarian will ensure they are comfortable asking for help again when they need it. To me that is the most important thing, at least as far as my part in their education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I applaud these students for even asking for help. Too often students just get frustrated and leave. Then they complain to their friends and/or professor that the library doesn&#8217;t have anything.</p>
<p>Maybe they are terrible spellers or maybe they just had a brain hiccup. Years ago I worked in order entry at a catalog center. A customer named Joan called and I could not for the life of me remember how to spell &#8220;Joan.&#8221; My brain just shut down and all I could think of was &#8220;Jone&#8221; but I knew that wasn&#8217;t right. I&#8217;m no spelling bee champion but I did know how to spell &#8220;Joan.&#8221; I just blanked for some reason.</p>
<p>I think there are issues with the educational system, student motivation, parents who don&#8217;t encourage learning, etc., but when I encounter a patron like this, I don&#8217;t worry about who&#8217;s fault it is. I take them as they are and go from there. Yes, they should know these things but when they don&#8217;t I help them as best I can to bring them up to speed. A lot of these kids know they are behind and are nervous about asking for help. A good experience with a librarian will ensure they are comfortable asking for help again when they need it. To me that is the most important thing, at least as far as my part in their education.</p>
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