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	<title>Comments on: No Joy In Research For The Spoiler Generation</title>
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	<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/</link>
	<description>Blogging by and for academic and research librarians</description>
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		<title>By: Marilyn R. Pukkila</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-124732</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilyn R. Pukkila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 18:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-124732</guid>
		<description>I think you have hit on an important point, Maura:  the same student may be, at one and the same time, a passionate researcher in one class, a recovery/summary student in a second, and a &quot;just give me what I need to get by&quot; student in a third.  I think there are few people who do get excited about the process *as process* (and they are on the way to being librarians and faculty, perhaps?); it&#039;s the topic that is more likely to  excite/engage.  There&#039;s also the consideration of &quot;is this for my major or just a class I have to take because the college says so&quot;.

I like the idea of identifying myself as a potential &quot;spoiler&quot;, though -- and I&#039;ve often described research as solving mysteries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have hit on an important point, Maura:  the same student may be, at one and the same time, a passionate researcher in one class, a recovery/summary student in a second, and a &#8220;just give me what I need to get by&#8221; student in a third.  I think there are few people who do get excited about the process *as process* (and they are on the way to being librarians and faculty, perhaps?); it&#8217;s the topic that is more likely to  excite/engage.  There&#8217;s also the consideration of &#8220;is this for my major or just a class I have to take because the college says so&#8221;.</p>
<p>I like the idea of identifying myself as a potential &#8220;spoiler&#8221;, though &#8212; and I&#8217;ve often described research as solving mysteries.</p>
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		<title>By: Maura Smale</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-124006</link>
		<dc:creator>Maura Smale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 21:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-124006</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve really enjoyed this post and the comments. To echo Anne-Marie, there&#039;s much to consider here.

The gaming example that Abrams recounts in the Wired piece is one that I&#039;ve been thinking on for a while. Of course we can&#039;t assume that all college students like and play video games, but for those that do, how can we tap into that experience of research and discovery that&#039;s built into so many current video games?

I also wonder whether students take the shortest route possible more often for subjects/topics that are less interesting to them (though I haven&#039;t researched this myself). Recently a faculty member suggested as much to me and told me that she always allows students to choose their own topics (within her discipline). The assignment may still be recovery and summary, but maybe the student&#039;s interest in the subject could help minimize the desire for spoilers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve really enjoyed this post and the comments. To echo Anne-Marie, there&#8217;s much to consider here.</p>
<p>The gaming example that Abrams recounts in the Wired piece is one that I&#8217;ve been thinking on for a while. Of course we can&#8217;t assume that all college students like and play video games, but for those that do, how can we tap into that experience of research and discovery that&#8217;s built into so many current video games?</p>
<p>I also wonder whether students take the shortest route possible more often for subjects/topics that are less interesting to them (though I haven&#8217;t researched this myself). Recently a faculty member suggested as much to me and told me that she always allows students to choose their own topics (within her discipline). The assignment may still be recovery and summary, but maybe the student&#8217;s interest in the subject could help minimize the desire for spoilers?</p>
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		<title>By: J.E. Luedke</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-123985</link>
		<dc:creator>J.E. Luedke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 19:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-123985</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth:
During a conversation I had recently with a professor about Wikipedia, she told me she didn&#039;t care where students got the information as long as the information was correct. This professor didn&#039;t care where the information came from, or how the student found it, just as long as the information was correct. So, Barbara, maybe some professors do realize that their assignments are &quot;recovery and summary.&quot; 

When I&#039;m instructing students, I try to present my instruction as though I&#039;m empowering the students to do it themselves. In my experience, students like to feel empowered. I know they will still come ask me for assistance (as a spoiler or a cheat) on a different topic, and I remind them that they are empowered by letting them show me how to do the search.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth:<br />
During a conversation I had recently with a professor about Wikipedia, she told me she didn&#8217;t care where students got the information as long as the information was correct. This professor didn&#8217;t care where the information came from, or how the student found it, just as long as the information was correct. So, Barbara, maybe some professors do realize that their assignments are &#8220;recovery and summary.&#8221; </p>
<p>When I&#8217;m instructing students, I try to present my instruction as though I&#8217;m empowering the students to do it themselves. In my experience, students like to feel empowered. I know they will still come ask me for assistance (as a spoiler or a cheat) on a different topic, and I remind them that they are empowered by letting them show me how to do the search.</p>
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		<title>By: joan</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-123894</link>
		<dc:creator>joan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 07:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-123894</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a mistake to think that we should try to make students into mini-librarians... and to hope that all students will be like us in terms of enjoying the research process. It&#039;s okay that research isn&#039;t about the experience, but just a means to an end, for many of our students. 

Students are not professors- or librarians-in-training. And nor do we always love the process. When I want to find out the biggest city in Chad, I just want the information. And that&#039;s okay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a mistake to think that we should try to make students into mini-librarians&#8230; and to hope that all students will be like us in terms of enjoying the research process. It&#8217;s okay that research isn&#8217;t about the experience, but just a means to an end, for many of our students. </p>
<p>Students are not professors- or librarians-in-training. And nor do we always love the process. When I want to find out the biggest city in Chad, I just want the information. And that&#8217;s okay.</p>
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		<title>By: Spoiler Alert! &#171; McMillen Library Staff Blog</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-123846</link>
		<dc:creator>Spoiler Alert! &#171; McMillen Library Staff Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 23:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-123846</guid>
		<description>[...] Spoiler&#160;Alert!  Here&#8217;s a link to a post at the ACRLog that I thought was interesting: http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/Â . [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Spoiler&nbsp;Alert!  Here&#8217;s a link to a post at the ACRLog that I thought was interesting: <a href="http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/Â " rel="nofollow">http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/Â </a>. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patron patience &#171; Into the Stacks</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-123843</link>
		<dc:creator>Patron patience &#171; Into the Stacks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 23:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-123843</guid>
		<description>[...] This post makes a related point: By enabling the rapid delivery of full-text content from a vast mix of resources, when just all right results requires little thought, our digital library environment provides exactly what a spoiler generation student needs. Getting right to the end without going through the process - and having no experience from which to learn. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post makes a related point: By enabling the rapid delivery of full-text content from a vast mix of resources, when just all right results requires little thought, our digital library environment provides exactly what a spoiler generation student needs. Getting right to the end without going through the process &#8211; and having no experience from which to learn. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anne-Marie</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-123797</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne-Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 17:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-123797</guid>
		<description>Oh, I&#039;ve now been thinking about this all morning while trapped in a meeting and finally have time to comment and there are so many thoughts I don&#039;t know what to say.  Thanks for a post that really got my brain going!  

See, a lot of the most spoiler-happy people I know work SO HARD at it.  For them, it&#039;s not a matter of skipping ahead so much as wringing every little bit of narrative out of the story.  And there&#039;s research too!  With shows like Lost, that include that narrative at so many levels - that provide so much stuff to figure out - are the best shows for those people.  There&#039;s a media scholar at Middlebury named Jason Mittell who has written some really interesting things about spoilers and Lost in particular and this idea of a narrative that is almost co-created between the show people and the fan people - the idea that media is not simply for consumption - is a big part of what I took away from one of his articles -- this one - http://www.participations.org/Volume%204/Issue%201/4_01_graymittell.htm

But this isn&#039;t just a tangent! I wonder if, just like there is one parallel to student researchers mentioned in the post, there might be another along these lines.  When we teach research, especially that deep, exciting, life changing type of research that you describe so well, isn&#039;t what we&#039;re talking about something that can&#039;t just be consumed?  but a learning that is also co-created between the texts &amp; sources, teachers, and students?  Maybe there&#039;s a parallel between creative types like Abrams, who create a narrative that invites audience participation, and what teachers can do.  I have no idea what that would look like, but I think I&#039;ll continue thinking on that question today.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I&#8217;ve now been thinking about this all morning while trapped in a meeting and finally have time to comment and there are so many thoughts I don&#8217;t know what to say.  Thanks for a post that really got my brain going!  </p>
<p>See, a lot of the most spoiler-happy people I know work SO HARD at it.  For them, it&#8217;s not a matter of skipping ahead so much as wringing every little bit of narrative out of the story.  And there&#8217;s research too!  With shows like Lost, that include that narrative at so many levels &#8211; that provide so much stuff to figure out &#8211; are the best shows for those people.  There&#8217;s a media scholar at Middlebury named Jason Mittell who has written some really interesting things about spoilers and Lost in particular and this idea of a narrative that is almost co-created between the show people and the fan people &#8211; the idea that media is not simply for consumption &#8211; is a big part of what I took away from one of his articles &#8212; this one &#8211; <a href="http://www.participations.org/Volume%204/Issue%201/4_01_graymittell.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.participations.org/Volume%204/Issue%201/4_01_graymittell.htm</a></p>
<p>But this isn&#8217;t just a tangent! I wonder if, just like there is one parallel to student researchers mentioned in the post, there might be another along these lines.  When we teach research, especially that deep, exciting, life changing type of research that you describe so well, isn&#8217;t what we&#8217;re talking about something that can&#8217;t just be consumed?  but a learning that is also co-created between the texts &amp; sources, teachers, and students?  Maybe there&#8217;s a parallel between creative types like Abrams, who create a narrative that invites audience participation, and what teachers can do.  I have no idea what that would look like, but I think I&#8217;ll continue thinking on that question today.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-123769</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 14:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-123769</guid>
		<description>Oh, and PS: I hang out with an online group of mystery readers. I don&#039;t know the average age, but I&#039;ll bet it&#039;s in the mid-50s if not older. We all know what &quot;spoiler&quot; means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and PS: I hang out with an online group of mystery readers. I don&#8217;t know the average age, but I&#8217;ll bet it&#8217;s in the mid-50s if not older. We all know what &#8220;spoiler&#8221; means.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark K.</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-123768</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 14:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-123768</guid>
		<description>There are lots of experiences out there. Too many for any one person to have in a life. We all pick and choose, students included. Do we librarians have a compelling story about why library research should be one of the prioritized experiences? Can we accept that it won&#039;t be, for everyone--just like not everybody is going to slog through the remaining seasons of &lt;i&gt;Lost&lt;/i&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are lots of experiences out there. Too many for any one person to have in a life. We all pick and choose, students included. Do we librarians have a compelling story about why library research should be one of the prioritized experiences? Can we accept that it won&#8217;t be, for everyone&#8211;just like not everybody is going to slog through the remaining seasons of <i>Lost</i>?</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2009/05/05/no-joy-in-research-for-the-spoiler-generation/comment-page-1/#comment-123767</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 14:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlog.org/?p=1556#comment-123767</guid>
		<description>It seems to me the reason students so often don&#039;t get excited about research is that they&#039;re asked to solve a mystery that the teacher already solved. It&#039;s the performance of an investigation that&#039;s over; you&#039;re simply cobbling together sources to prove that you found them and can document them properly. How often have you heard a student say they have to change topics because they can&#039;t find a source that says what they want to say? That&#039;s a fundamental, but very common, misunderstanding of the nature of research. 

And by the way, I&#039;ve seen the same misconception for over twenty years so I don&#039;t think it&#039;s generational. So much of what is called research at the undergraduate level is actually &quot;going through the steps of finding out what people already know and depositing it in my briefcase in suitably formal language that erases any clue that you were personally involved.&quot; When faculty assign papers, they very often don&#039;t stop to consider that what they&#039;re actually asking for is reports or arguments - which involves finding and using sources, but isn&#039;t discovery, just recovery and summary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me the reason students so often don&#8217;t get excited about research is that they&#8217;re asked to solve a mystery that the teacher already solved. It&#8217;s the performance of an investigation that&#8217;s over; you&#8217;re simply cobbling together sources to prove that you found them and can document them properly. How often have you heard a student say they have to change topics because they can&#8217;t find a source that says what they want to say? That&#8217;s a fundamental, but very common, misunderstanding of the nature of research. </p>
<p>And by the way, I&#8217;ve seen the same misconception for over twenty years so I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s generational. So much of what is called research at the undergraduate level is actually &#8220;going through the steps of finding out what people already know and depositing it in my briefcase in suitably formal language that erases any clue that you were personally involved.&#8221; When faculty assign papers, they very often don&#8217;t stop to consider that what they&#8217;re actually asking for is reports or arguments &#8211; which involves finding and using sources, but isn&#8217;t discovery, just recovery and summary.</p>
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