Comments on: The Challenge Of Under-Prepared Students http://acrlog.org/2009/05/19/the-challenge-of-under-prepared-students/ Blogging by and for academic and research librarians Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:32:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: oelibrarian http://acrlog.org/2009/05/19/the-challenge-of-under-prepared-students/comment-page-1/#comment-126235 oelibrarian Fri, 22 May 2009 13:29:58 +0000 http://acrlog.org/?p=1554#comment-126235 I agree, we should always see it as a challenge. We may not be called teacher or professor, but we are still educators. And while I sometimes do inwardly cringe (because I am just as human as everyone else) I am also applauding them for being in school. Then of course I remind myself how much I don't know in a lot of areas. I would be grossly unprepared for most freshman math and science classes. They are just not my forte. Granted, many have many different opinions on the matter of the underpreparedness of students but come on folks, we get to work in some amazing places with a lot of amazing people. All in the pursuit of knowledge (a bit cliche I know). I get to go to work in a library, every day of the week. How great is that? Anyway, enough from me. But Steven, your post, and the one from Oct., reminded me of a phone coversation I had with someone from another library not too long ago (not a student, a staff person). This person was looking for a book with the word Nazi in the title. I could not locate the item in our catalog. So, I asked this person to spell the title for me. The word that was being pronounced Nazi was actually Nietzsche. Rather than cringe I realized this person had never come across this word before and was doing their level best to pronounce it the way they believed it should be. They simply did not know Nietzsche is not pronounced Nazi. We all learn things at different times, isn't it great we get to be a part of so many people's learning experiences? I agree, we should always see it as a challenge. We may not be called teacher or professor, but we are still educators. And while I sometimes do inwardly cringe (because I am just as human as everyone else) I am also applauding them for being in school. Then of course I remind myself how much I don’t know in a lot of areas. I would be grossly unprepared for most freshman math and science classes. They are just not my forte. Granted, many have many different opinions on the matter of the underpreparedness of students but come on folks, we get to work in some amazing places with a lot of amazing people. All in the pursuit of knowledge (a bit cliche I know). I get to go to work in a library, every day of the week. How great is that? Anyway, enough from me.

But Steven, your post, and the one from Oct., reminded me of a phone coversation I had with someone from another library not too long ago (not a student, a staff person). This person was looking for a book with the word Nazi in the title. I could not locate the item in our catalog. So, I asked this person to spell the title for me. The word that was being pronounced Nazi was actually Nietzsche. Rather than cringe I realized this person had never come across this word before and was doing their level best to pronounce it the way they believed it should be. They simply did not know Nietzsche is not pronounced Nazi. We all learn things at different times, isn’t it great we get to be a part of so many people’s learning experiences?

]]> By: Kyri Freeman http://acrlog.org/2009/05/19/the-challenge-of-under-prepared-students/comment-page-1/#comment-126041 Kyri Freeman Thu, 21 May 2009 01:43:33 +0000 http://acrlog.org/?p=1554#comment-126041 When I read this: "Who hasn’t encountered a student in an instruction session that doesn’t understand the difference between an article title and a journal title or has difficulty understanding the concept of a synonymous term."... Wow. I would be prepared to say that NONE of the students in our library tutorials know either of those things. Many of them do not know how to read a text, whether print or electronic, and extract information from it, and they don't know why they should care to. Sometimes, they don't know what the "back" and "home" buttons on the computer screen are. I think the lack of preparation among students entering college is the biggest challenge faced by higher education in this country (and probably others as well). How can we make up in 2 years (for us community colleges) what should have started when the child was born? And how can we not only teach all the basic skills, the work ethic, the love of learning, but also get students to a genuine college level academically so they can transfer to four-year institutions? Not to mention, what about supporting the students who ARE prepared and motivated, but can't find the higher-level classes they need and want because all the budget support is going to Basic Skills? It's really daunting. Oh, and we have to do all this with ever-shrinking budgets. When I read this:
“Who hasn’t encountered a student in an instruction session that doesn’t understand the difference between an article title and a journal title or has difficulty understanding the concept of a synonymous term.”…
Wow. I would be prepared to say that NONE of the students in our library tutorials know either of those things.
Many of them do not know how to read a text, whether print or electronic, and extract information from it, and they don’t know why they should care to.
Sometimes, they don’t know what the “back” and “home” buttons on the computer screen are.

I think the lack of preparation among students entering college is the biggest challenge faced by higher education in this country (and probably others as well). How can we make up in 2 years (for us community colleges) what should have started when the child was born? And how can we not only teach all the basic skills, the work ethic, the love of learning, but also get students to a genuine college level academically so they can transfer to four-year institutions? Not to mention, what about supporting the students who ARE prepared and motivated, but can’t find the higher-level classes they need and want because all the budget support is going to Basic Skills? It’s really daunting. Oh, and we have to do all this with ever-shrinking budgets.

]]> By: heather http://acrlog.org/2009/05/19/the-challenge-of-under-prepared-students/comment-page-1/#comment-125887 heather Wed, 20 May 2009 00:43:04 +0000 http://acrlog.org/?p=1554#comment-125887 I had great dreams of trying to get bib instruction embedded in at least a few freshman courses to help work on these well known and increasing problems. It was an idea that seemed ready to explode into academic institutions when I was in grad school. I had great dreams of getting into any library for any age to help create programming for just these students because it became apparent that getting the problems solved early would prevent them from being the cancer they are later at university. Hello Big3 and Big6! Now, however, I realize that *no one is willing to pay for this instruction *politics interfere with the meshing of library staff/fac into department area in almost every campus I have experienced (despite the research that it is a big help!) *faculty are so behind technologically that the IT plans (often poorly explained) that are intended to bring students into the U experience are often failures and crutches instead of draws and tools. *libraries are not considered each department's resource. *library budgets are easy targets as usual *IT and library management are still too separate and polarized *Departments refuse to learn from other's mistakes and are institutionally on the defensive. *librarians are often considered personal resources instead of institutional resources if they are considered at all outside of the library *faculty have no time to cover basic research and writing fundamentals, but have no means in place to refer students to the library for instruction that is too minimal or not sexy enough for students to even attend. *most incoming freshman in the US academic world should not even be attending U, but technicon or trade schools...which are not sexy or available in the US. I would love to help and would love to be loving it and I am still trying to get into the position to do so. But, I cannot volunteer all the time, and I cannot get another masters degree to accumulate a reading endorsement certificate to find a part time position in a primary and secondary school, and finding work in an academic library is just not happening now, and my position within a college is considered disconnected from any library work... So, I am creating my own school/tutoring services for those cringe-worthy students to use if they need it and can afford anything at all above their tuition and other expenses... I had great dreams of trying to get bib instruction embedded in at least a few freshman courses to help work on these well known and increasing problems. It was an idea that seemed ready to explode into academic institutions when I was in grad school.

I had great dreams of getting into any library for any age to help create programming for just these students because it became apparent that getting the problems solved early would prevent them from being the cancer they are later at university. Hello Big3 and Big6!

Now, however, I realize that
*no one is willing to pay for this instruction
*politics interfere with the meshing of library staff/fac into department area in almost every campus I have experienced (despite the research that it is a big help!)
*faculty are so behind technologically that the IT plans (often poorly explained) that are intended to bring students into the U experience are often failures and crutches instead of draws and tools.
*libraries are not considered each department’s resource.
*library budgets are easy targets as usual
*IT and library management are still too separate and polarized
*Departments refuse to learn from other’s mistakes and are institutionally on the defensive.
*librarians are often considered personal resources instead of institutional resources if they are considered at all outside of the library
*faculty have no time to cover basic research and writing fundamentals, but have no means in place to refer students to the library for instruction that is too minimal or not sexy enough for students to even attend.
*most incoming freshman in the US academic world should not even be attending U, but technicon or trade schools…which are not sexy or available in the US.

I would love to help and would love to be loving it and I am still trying to get into the position to do so. But, I cannot volunteer all the time, and I cannot get another masters degree to accumulate a reading endorsement certificate to find a part time position in a primary and secondary school, and finding work in an academic library is just not happening now, and my position within a college is considered disconnected from any library work…

So, I am creating my own school/tutoring services for those cringe-worthy students to use if they need it and can afford anything at all above their tuition and other expenses…

]]> By: Cindy Kump http://acrlog.org/2009/05/19/the-challenge-of-under-prepared-students/comment-page-1/#comment-125844 Cindy Kump Tue, 19 May 2009 18:31:25 +0000 http://acrlog.org/?p=1554#comment-125844 Personally, while I do enjoy the challenging reference requests, I get the most satisfaction helping the underprepared students. They are often the ones with the most anxiety about using the library and I get a lot of joy out of helping them not only with their research needs but with changing their view of the library and librarians. These are the ones who become my regulars, ask for me by name, and refer their friends. I would also like to comment on the issue of what they should know vs. what they don’t know. Many of them are underprepared, either of their own fault or that of the school system they come from, but it doesn’t matter to me what they should know or whose fault it is that they are underprepared. My only concern is what they do know, what they need to know, and how to best address that. Yes, they should know a lot of this stuff, but they don’t, and that’s all that matters when they are sitting with me at the desk stressed out and wondering how they will ever complete their paper or project. While it does amaze me sometimes when I encounter a student who’s never written a research paper before or doesn’t know how to use the index in a book, it does not frustrate me. I simply help them. That's my job, and I love it! Personally, while I do enjoy the challenging reference requests, I get the most satisfaction helping the underprepared students. They are often the ones with the most anxiety about using the library and I get a lot of joy out of helping them not only with their research needs but with changing their view of the library and librarians. These are the ones who become my regulars, ask for me by name, and refer their friends.

I would also like to comment on the issue of what they should know vs. what they don’t know. Many of them are underprepared, either of their own fault or that of the school system they come from, but it doesn’t matter to me what they should know or whose fault it is that they are underprepared. My only concern is what they do know, what they need to know, and how to best address that. Yes, they should know a lot of this stuff, but they don’t, and that’s all that matters when they are sitting with me at the desk stressed out and wondering how they will ever complete their paper or project. While it does amaze me sometimes when I encounter a student who’s never written a research paper before or doesn’t know how to use the index in a book, it does not frustrate me. I simply help them. That’s my job, and I love it!

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